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Post by gillianlaird on Jun 9, 2024 20:19:13 GMT
Guinevere is a strange, yet very interesting character to me. Something I have kept in the back of my mind while reading is the moment Willie tells Lovett, in regards to Guinevere, that "People always want you to think well of them..." I especially see this trait in her. We, as the reader, are told that she has a "promiscuous" past, however Guinevere claims to have changed for her daughter. I don't think anything we know about Guinevere to be completely true, because she is always in the business of wanting people to think well of her. In my opinion, she seems like a chameleon. She appears like she is the type of person who lives solely for herself and her own gain, and I think she is willing to become whatever she needs to be in order to control (and get the most out of) those around her. For example, with Lovett, we are reminded several times that he appears younger than his actual age; perhaps this could explain Guinevere's immature flirting methods. I think her reasoning for engaging with Lovett in this way is to possibly string him along as long as possible in order to suit her needs, which turn out to be wanting someone to spy on the men upstairs. Has anyone else noticed this?
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Post by shelbygraham on Jun 10, 2024 2:40:16 GMT
I agree with you! She is very eccentric...if that's even a good word. I don't really think she has changed, I think her circumstances have changed. She is married and a mother now, but is still promiscuous and getting into complicated situations. She says she is trying to be "better" but I don't really buy into that, or at least question how much she is genuinely trying. I definitely think she is stringing him along. It seems she is always playing games with people's emotions, and I wonder why.
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Post by Dr. Nemmers on Jun 10, 2024 15:20:22 GMT
Agree on both points, and one of the difficulties of Guinevere is that we really don't know anything more than Mikey does---and all of our perceptions of her are filtered through his perspective, so they're very much colored by his horniness, for lack of a better word. He really has the hots for her and she seems to be encouraging it-- the fact that she's married is pretty much no roadblock for them. It's a bit bizarre.
The other possibility here is that Mailer just doesn't know how to write female characters beyond shady stereotypes, and that he's leaning into what he's read and seen elsewhere in an attempt to make them alluring/ interesting. So, it could be that she's just sloppily characterized and a mystery even to the author... I guess that makes her eccentric!
Regardless, as I posted in another thread, the marketers of this volume sure saw her (and Lannie) as sex symbols and passive characters for the male gaze and (presumably) the male reader. We'll have much more to say throughout this week and next.
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Post by gillianlaird on Jun 11, 2024 17:37:17 GMT
I agree with you! She is very eccentric...if that's even a good word. I don't really think she has changed, I think her circumstances have changed. She is married and a mother now, but is still promiscuous and getting into complicated situations. She says she is trying to be "better" but I don't really buy into that, or at least question how much she is genuinely trying. I definitely think she is stringing him along. It seems she is always playing games with people's emotions, and I wonder why. I definitely agree with the idea that she plays with peoples' emotions. I think that she always had big expectations for her life, hence the fact that she is an ex-burlesque girl and infantalizes her own child in order to prepare her for a life in Hollywood. With this in mind, the fact that she now lives a more average life (if anything about her past is even true) might be what leads her to toy around with people. I think she does it out of boredom. She seems like the type of person to adore drama of any kind, even if she has to play the director and create it herself. Furthermore, based on all the stories she frequently tells Lovett, stories that he himself questions the validity of, I wonder if anything about her past is true (as previously mentioned). I'm not sure if there is any proof of this in the text. However, simply based on Lovett's inability to pay much attention to her stories, I believe she might be fabricating them. Again, this could be to play the role of the kind of woman that she knows the men around her want. She is a very interesting character. |
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Post by dcomeaux on Jun 11, 2024 20:08:33 GMT
Yes! That is what I was going to comment on. I had a hard time believing the past that Guinevere was trying to sell Mikey. The whole Hollywood and ex-burlesque and all the celebrities she "had". All the marriage proposals and the opportunities for millions. Not once did it set with me while I was reading. She seems to want people to see her in a specific light. She is also trying to create her OWN story, as is Mikey, just in different ways.
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Post by connorswauger on Jun 12, 2024 1:11:52 GMT
I was thinking about this too. Not only is she doing this with Lovett. Hollingsworth is also apparently seeing her too. (if he is to be believed…) If she is playing the role of the seductress and using the lust of men to her advantage, that would make for a very interesting power play. Although, I wonder what her goal is in stringing these men along. And I like how you mention her daughter, Monina. The whole sequence where Guinevere is telling Lovett her story and Monina is sort of acting it out made me wonder if Monina is representing a similar cyclical nature where she is becoming a copy of her mother.
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Post by shelbygraham on Jun 12, 2024 2:56:19 GMT
I agree with you! She is very eccentric...if that's even a good word. I don't really think she has changed, I think her circumstances have changed. She is married and a mother now, but is still promiscuous and getting into complicated situations. She says she is trying to be "better" but I don't really buy into that, or at least question how much she is genuinely trying. I definitely think she is stringing him along. It seems she is always playing games with people's emotions, and I wonder why. I definitely agree with the idea that she plays with peoples' emotions. I think that she always had big expectations for her life, hence the fact that she is an ex-burlesque girl and infantalizes her own child in order to prepare her for a life in Hollywood. With this in mind, the fact that she now lives a more average life (if anything about her past is even true) might be what leads her to toy around with people. I think she does it out of boredom. She seems like the type of person to adore drama of any kind, even if she has to play the director and create it herself. Furthermore, based on all the stories she frequently tells Lovett, stories that he himself questions the validity of, I wonder if anything about her past is true (as previously mentioned). I'm not sure if there is any proof of this in the text. However, simply based on Lovett's inability to pay much attention to her stories, I believe she might be fabricating them. Again, this could be to play the role of the kind of woman that she knows the men around her want. She is a very interesting character. I think boredom is for sure one of her main reasons for her shenanigans. And a need for attention. A life in Hollywood as an actress or burlesque girl is a career that entails a lot of attention, so she is clearly someone who loves to be the star of the show. As you've said, now that she isn't in the Hollywood world, she continues to find her own way to be the star of the show. |
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